So let's do address the issue of safety. How does one stay safe while hiking/camping? What are some of the things you do?
Me? I look 'em in the eye, and I'm pretty intimidating. Street-smarts tend to work in the woods. I also know how to handle myself in most situations, and when all else fails, I carry. What do you do?
Me? I look 'em in the eye, and I'm pretty intimidating. Street-smarts tend to work in the woods. I also know how to handle myself in most situations, and when all else fails, I carry. What do you do?
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Re: Safety
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 11:52 PMTALKING IN GENERAL
public forest are havens for crap from people, dirt bike fools, 4x4 madmen, and stupid people blowing engine degreaser cans I will not stay there more than a night only in transite from remote places. you can see what Ive said in the past discussions on this subject..
but claymores are great for removing problems (for just hiking)
If you go to your local shops at night and you dont like who is standing near the ATM you dont use it. Dont camp near roads and dont tell strangers where you are going (rangers&police ok) and dont walk with people who take to much booze.
I Have a smaller kit of two waist bags with two days scoff ,hydropack and my meat-axe (picture in my photos),flash light and flit . If I found myself in the likes of real big crap I dump larger pack and BOOTleg it taking the waist bags & hydro with me..I dont like firearms any more but Im a very good shoot I do have a PSE 100pd hunt bow and Its maxed out. I will post photos of my archery in the future .
people on the whole I keep away from in the bush now and again at times I really meet fantastic helpful persons too
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Re: Safety
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 3:00 PMI go out solo allot and in the interest of personal safety on long jaunts in the wilderness I carry a pre-paid satellite phone. The sat phone was purchased after I heard the story of Aron Ralston. This is a *in case of disaster* type of backup, not a *I twisted my ankle my gps batteries are dead and I don't know how to use a map and compass*. Pride is going to have me self rescuing for as long as I can, if I am capable. But this phone is also more for the other dum-dums out in the bush who get in sticky spots. I have limited interest in playing hero with people who are unprepared or outside their skill set.
In bear country using a food safe, keeping the food far away from your camp, bells and having bear mace on the ready are generally considered good ideas.
In dodgy mixed use areas, where your likely to incur morons far away from civilization it doesn't hurt to setup trip lines attached to bear bells or other fave noise makers. This will give you an idea that someone man or beast is approaching and enough time to pull the flare out of your flare gun and replace it with bird shot or a slug. A metal 12 gauge flare gun or metal flare gun insert is ideal for these situations because it is not technically a firearm, is only good for close quarters defensive shooting and you cannot be mistaken for a poacher.
Although a regular plastic flare gun has potential to create some pretty serious wounds and a good visual deterrent. I'm not in the business of dictating or interpreting firearms law. My flare gun stays configured as such and I don't really care if others agree with this measure or not. I also carry when I'm out in the bush. Almost every predator respects that or at least they will.
I also have various tools in my kit, that could be used as improvised weapons in a pinch. To include my Gerber hatchet with wood saw in the handle, shovel, or stake hammer/remover. Depending on which kit I'm carrying.
Obviously the best thing to do with humans is to talk your way out of the situation and put as much distance between them and yourself. If you go off trail, you better know what your doing. If the person pursuing you is better off trail then you are, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage and more easily tracked.
Weapons are risky because you take the risk of hurting yourself in what could become a hostile environment (uncontrolled bleeding, infection risk, etc...etc...). If your life is in eminent danger, then obviously self defense is always justified. But if your worried about that you should take a self-defense / offense class before you need it. A weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
If your in a flee for your life situation, drop as much weight as possible and keep the essentials, food/water, navigational/rescue devices and drop everything else.
The keywords are situational awareness. Man, woman or other. I think anyone who is not prepared for this potential situation is naive. Nature makes no apologies and neither do criminals.
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Re: Safety
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 4:27 PMOn my long trip in 1991, I had more trouble with people in civilization than I did with animals in the back country. Perhaps I should say "in Civilization and it's fringes", since I wasn't in civilization all that much.
Every time I meet people in the back country, I've always found them to be courteous - even the one group that I suspected were cops. It is important to share news in the back country - bear problems, washed out bridges, missing hikers, who-knows-what. It's also important to ask people what they are in need of - and to trade if you can. I once worked a trade where I passed my spare sunglasses over to the guy that gave his surlpus white gas to a large party with a malfunctioning stove, so that I could eat dinner with them.
In the City, it seems that folks are afraid to look you in the eye when you pass by them. In the back country, it's RUDE to walk past someone and not acknowledge them.
I used to carry a revolver, but I gave it up because it weighed too much and I never needed it. Now, if I want to chase away a wild animal, I'll use the hunting slingshot. The Rangers are a lot less uptight about me using it for self-defense. The one time that I was in a serious confrontation with a bear, it left when a couple of other backpackers showed up with their dogs. The most common nusance I've had in the back country is birds (especially Bluejays) - they will try to steal your food even if you are trying to put it into your mouth.
One of the things that I have tried to teach beginning backpackers is "The most important thing you can take with you when you leave trailhead is COMMON SENSE". Unfortunately, "Common Sense" is kind of a rare commodity. -
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Re: Safety
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 5:39 PMIt does pay to be well educated on these things, doesn't it? -
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Re: Safety
Wed, January 9, 2008 - 11:34 PMAlong with a gun or knife, I carry everything I would need to continue living in the wild indefinately. Yes, my pack is pretty fucking heavy (100lbs or more.) but if things get really bad I'm carring a complete kitchen and a day's water BEYOND my first water source.
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:34 AMI said this in the other companion thread, thought I'd cross post here:
As far as safety goes I really don't think this kind of thing (the Georgia incident) is one can plan for. This wasn't the usual kind of person-to-person problem one encounters. While some people may want to give you a hard time, scare you, or intimidate you they aren't likely to want to kidnap you, kill you, then decapitate you. This isn't the normal assault report, we're talking about someone who is clearly completely derranged. There really isn't much one can do to protect themselves from that since such attackers are skilled at manipulation and abduction. And such attacks can happen anywhere, not specifically hiking trails. To me that is the real safety lesson here: don't assume that country-like environments are any more safe than sub/urban ones.
from one of the articles:
"Emerson's roommate, described her as an experienced hiker who has a blue belt in martial arts. Other friends said she was familiar with the trail near where her car was found, having jogged on it several times with a partner"
...ok so the victim was 1) an experienced hiker, 2) knew the trail well, and 3) had some degree of self-defense skills. Really, a single hiker (even a woman) could not be much more prepared. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:38 AMGood stuff, but sticking to topic, what do YOU do to maintain some level of safety while hiking? -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:46 AMI don't believe walking 'strapped' into the wood is the best approach.. personally
There is a definite stigma attached to the least foreboding yet effective solution.
The slingshot or "wrist-rocket" would be my companion of choice. When I was an asshole in my single digit years.. the slingshot was my best ally against squirrels and other friendly chippers.. I would never use it again toward another inhabitant, but they are incredibly effective, powerful, and easy to aim with an hour's practice. (Just make sure you pack some rocks! But they sell lil' glass balls too)
It's an astonishing shame that such serene environments can harbor this behavior, but carrying an extra pack of bummer's smokes is never a bad plan. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 12:07 PMInteresting. I'm not sure I'd want to encourage smoking in the woods, tho. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 1:20 PMGood call! I can't think of a more universal incentive for the Avg. roamer.. but money is bullshit.. Keep an extra Tension Tamer's tea bag for alternative negotiation.. It's stupid of people to kill or hurt one another.. but I suppose you can't stop the living. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 1:50 PMWhen it comes down to it, (and let us be clear that we hope it never comes down to it), I have no problem letting someone know that there are definitely teeth behind the smile. I have many diplomatic tools to put to use before it becomes an option, but I am keeping my sidearm in reach. And sometimes, in sight. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 2:26 PMman all i have to say is if every one had the right to carry a concealed weapon and everyone new it, there would not be any rapes, killings, mall shootings, columbines, store robberies, shitty drivers, mean people, bullying, stabbings, gangs or crime anywhere. that mall shooting that happend not too long ago, kid with an ak47, know how he got stopped? an off duty cop ran from the other side of the mall, it took him 5 minutes, if i remember correctly at least 7 people died. it happened where concealed handguns are legal but guess what? they had signs posted all around the mall that it was a no gun zone, even if you had a permit you could not bring it into the mall. good thing the cop broke the law right!
tell you a couple stories about big caliente hot springs, one good one bad.
bad pne:
me and some friends were soaking in the tub and these in their 30's gangster types showed up with their heinas and got in. i used to be gangy in high school so i speak the lango. this one guy mentioned he just got out of jail, his heina said something he didnt like about 5 minutes later and he socked her like a man you want to take down in the side of the head while they were in the hot spring. i had my blank firing gun i keep on me for scaring off cats and bears a 22 cal. i got out of the pool calmly, got my shoes on then pulled it out of myy pack. i shot the first round into the air then pointed it right at his head and told him to exit the pool. his friends were mixed into two groups, one that looked bothered about his actions and one that didnt. the ones that did i told to take the girl home right now and the others i told to stay, she left and i let the others go 20 minutes later AND i followed them out for the 1.5 hour drive out. i am a big guy 6'1" 260 lbs.
good one:
last time i went to big caliente about a month ago i took a friend for his first time there. we got there and no one was around and the tub was gross inside so i decided to drain it and hose it out.as soon as it was empty a group of geocache lookin bmw bike riding internet drive there and back group of 35 or so people show up. one guy walks up and askes what i am doing and if it is a scheduled thing i am doing, cleaning it out middle of a saterday. i explain to him no i have been coming here for over 15 years and i learned how to clean the tub and maintain the site with trash pick up etc. and even point to the artsy "respect this place" marker on the pool sidewalk. he replies who would of thought! damn, i cant believe this etc. his friend replies hey this guy doesnt work here but is not only showing us how to maintain the spot is doing it out of the goodness of his own heart. we filled it up for them then went for a small hike to the other pools they were too good for. an hour or two later two of them walk past us yelling 2 peoples names. looking at my friend and i suspiciously. they returned and asked if we had seen their friends we said no, they went back to the first pool. i told my friend lets go talk to them find out whats up. turns out 2 were missing, they didnt know where.i offered to show them the trail for at least a mile, they said "we cant hike in motorcycle boots" so i offered to go alone if they could wait like 30 minutes. they said they couldnt wait that long and were treating me all weird. their friends walked up a minute later. all of a sudden they looked at me with different eyes, we DIDNT really kill their friends they had gotten lost.
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 2:22 PMI was very much joking about Claymores.
The poor girl was ambushed, in what was an out right bully tactic or what ever other term fits best.
This bloke wouldn't picked myself he would have a look for a very easy target regardless.
He wasn't looking for someone, she happened to be there and he noticed her as many of you implied.
My days of look of my shoulder are over and when I think back to my heart pounding many times before..I dread the throughts of that poor woman.
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 2:31 PMi hear that i allways have a bamboo walking stick i keep in the car, a knife and a blank firing gun in the survival backpack (a camel back). -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 2:40 PMI think that the greatest asset is keeping one's wits about you. Clearly the poor N. Georgia victim was a person who, by all expectations, should have been able to handle herself. Shit is going to happen. In the end:
1) Know yourself, know your limits.
2) Get educated on safety, including personal self-defense.
3) Get some survival skills education.
4) Be aware of your surroundings at all times.
5) Equip yourself for both time & circumstance on the trail.
6) In short, be prepared.
And then I think the rest is just style & technique. Firearms aren't for everyone, neither do I think they ought to be. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 2:56 PMwhile i understand that, if everyone had the ABILITY to have one people would think twice about crimes, thats once more than they do now.
1)should i hit her over the head?
even uf the answer to number one is yes
2) might she have a firearm?
i say legalize it, not mandate it. all criminals would be dead in the first year. good riddence. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 5:04 PMThats a solid point.. I know some energy around the far-right gun movement.. such as shown in Bowling for Columbine (the "real" rednecks) makes me uneasy.. and I'm white.
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Re: Safety
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 1:24 PM"Good stuff, but sticking to topic, what do YOU do to maintain some level of safety while hiking?"
sorry, I just meant that there are some things you can't prepare for and generally one of the best safety tips is remembering that rural areas are no more safe than urban ones. :)
I don't get to hike and camp much now due to health issues, but in general when it comes to personal safety if I'm alone I find that as a woman neutralizing the gender as much as possible helps. Not eliminating it, but being more gender neutral in appearance and action.
For example, I'm not going to have my hair huge and wear a white tshirt with no bra and short shorts when out camping alone. Not that appearance is ever justification for assault, but an appearance that is overtly feminine or typically "sexy" in that setting draws a lot more attention to those who are looking to cause trouble. It also immediately places a women in the "female = weak" category for some people by associating the woman with only the stereotypical hair/clothes/makeup category. Basically, not drawing attention to myself and specifically not drawing attention to the fact that I'm female. That's a bit of prevention.
I also try to speak in a less friendly/accommodating tone, and try to speak more plainly and flatly instead. Some people with issues (the kind that like to cause trouble) take that typical female tone to mean a person is weak, easily manipulated, or intimated. So again, speaking in a more gender neutral tone helps. As does appearing self-sufficient and addressing any conflicts immediately before the instigator can get a leg up. I've found in general that just doing basic things (lifting, assembling, planning) as a woman and appearing that you have your shit together immediately puts you on many people's Don't Fuck With list. ;)
Then there are the practical things like locking up everything (including a padlock on the tent zipper to make it difficult for someone to steal while I'm gone or get in whlie I'm sleeping), letting people know where I am or where I'm going, knowing the route and how to get back, being continually aware of surroundings and possible places to run to or things to use for defense.
and btw, Mickey changed your av so many times in the past day or two it's llike you're practicing for the witness protection program. ;) -
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Re: Safety
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 11:20 AM< Mickey changed your av so many times in the past day or two it's llike you're practicing for the witness protection program. ;) >
Shhh! They'll hear you.
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Re: Safety
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 3:08 PM> How does one stay safe while hiking/camping?
In the wilderness I feel pretty safe. We have several million person-miles per year in this country hiking, and only a very few incidents. So few, in fact, that the one or two incidents per decade that we get tend to make national headlines even as we lose several people every week to violent crime in the city with narry a thought.
Given that the woods are so much safer than any urban setting, perhaps the better question is what we might do for our personal security wherever we are.
With safety, we're looking at two very different categories of risk: criminals and the environment.
In the woods, environmental risks are far more likely than human threats. In contrast to the very low number of people attacked in the wilderness, we read about people getting lost about once a month. That's still very low compared to any urbn risk, but worth remembering when you're packing for a dayhike.
Safety from environmental risks can mean being prepared for a sudden change of weather, or getting lost, either of which can easily turn a day hike into an overnighter.
In the city, environmental risks may be a terrorist attack, earthquake, etc., in which power is gone and you're stranded far from home.
There's a lot that could be written about minimizing and dealing with human risks in the city, but I'll leave that to the Survivalist tribe.
In the woods, risks from criminals are so low that a firearm is barely worth the weight it requires, and to be useful you'd need it conveniently holstered, since a gun buried in your pack won't do you any good when you need it. Holstering tends to make rangers wary, though, and will require special permits which vary from state to state, and even then is prohibited in places like national parks.
At a minimum, all hikers should always carry a knife. A good 3" folder is convenient, accessible, and relatively lightweight, and beyond the unlikely use as a weapon it's critical for outdoors survival.
ANY hike can easily become an overnighter, so even dayhikers should be prepared to spend the night if needed. That means extra water and food, a jacket, firestarter, etc. Familiarity with building shelters is very useful as well (the ol' Rule of Threes), not to mention a map and a compass and good knowledge of how to use them to avoid getting lost in the first place.
But human risks? In the woods it's a rare event, and each of the few attacks we read about are so different from one another that I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all solution. Just keep a knife handy and your eyes open, and enjoy your hike.
As for environmental risks, city or woods it's a good idea to have a small survival kit on you at all times. Here's one that's small enough to fit in an Altoids container, and cheap enough to leave an extra one in the glove compartment of your car:
www.survival.com/best.htm
Like a survival expert I know says, "Gear is what you have in your pack. A survival kit is what you have in your pockets."
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Re: Safety
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:30 PM -
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Re: Safety
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 4:47 PMI have one, and I love it. It's small and light enough that I don't mind having it in the pack, and the "OK" message option is very helpful for letting folks back home know I'm all good.
Even with the annual subscription fee, I think it's a bargain for the peace of mind it brings, not just for me but for my peeps back at the ranch. -
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Re: Safety
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 5:07 PMNice device! Since it has a gps embedded I would imagine that their next product will be a full fledged GPS with a 911 button. I also noted that they offer insurance for extraction too. -
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Re: Safety
Fri, March 28, 2008 - 9:13 AMAccording to the commercials, this device already has a 911 button.
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Re: Safety
Fri, March 28, 2008 - 10:40 AMSpot>>>
Interesting.
I have Grand Mal seizures, but like to go on solo thru-hikes ...
I refuse to marginalize my experience... so usually hike on the trail ... and camp near it as well.
The Spot device could be helpful to me. -
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Re: Safety
Fri, March 28, 2008 - 12:12 PMi think there's guide dogs now also that can tell when the seizures are coming and alert you. I just say that because dogs are cool. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 5:34 PMWere we just spammed by an alt? Someone mentions it, then all of a sudden we have 5 endorsements for the product? Fishy
There is no substitute for a hiking partner. -
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Re: Safety
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 10:40 PMhuh? I was asking my peers for opinions and first hand experience. The same as I have for shoes and stoves and other topics mentioned here. Besides I enjoy going out solo and I get tired of begging people to go out hiking or backpacking for a few days. I had been carrying a pre-paid sat phone. Its more expensive than this device and I wanted to check for general consensus.
I'm sorry if that offended you.
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Re: Safety
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 4:23 PMNaw. I'm just impressed with bright shiny objects and techy toys. Try waving a nice new nickle chrome plated Smith & Wesson in front of me and you'll probably get a similar reaction. ;-)
True about the hiking partner. I usually recommend that you have two hiking partners so if something befalls you, one of your partners can go get help whilst the other provides care and comfort. Hopefully both your hiking partners are competent enough to provide first aid and find their way back to the car or a phone.
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